I read this at my desk at work and I've been reflecting on it a lot today. It is such a shame, I do feel super frustrated with this app and the internet and culture in general. I try really hard to keep up with a few folks here, read closely, and contribute to the kind of environment I wanna be apart of. But damn!! it's very frustrating to wade through all the bullshit.
I'm going to have to drop into one of your feedback gyms sometime. I'm thinking things should slow down in the winter sometime so I can do that. I could use some real time writing companionship for sure!
…would be so stoked to online hang…also if you ever come to the bay and we don’t meet up it is sacrilege…i appreciate so much how you are building craft online…
Excellent essay. I especially like the idea of no like buttons. They are not helpful. If you like, then comment. Your words are your engagement and your “like.”
…yeah you are!…vanity metrics are as much fun as a carly simon record played at chipmunk speed…how is there not a cocreative community app thats all the good of this buttbucket and none of the trash…dragon piss i tell ya…dragon piss…
...yeah if I were to build this thing I think the money would come ala a patreon/substack/kickstarter methodology (crowd funded) built on the blockchain though so the system had its own currency and the market of it would both pay for the platform, but also reward users for growing the platform over time...
You belong on the list at the end with your own space that you can invite people into to play as described. The Man Baby Sisterhood. One notification and one post per day. Watching the muppets do Bohemian Rhapsody is something I might have missed in this lifetime if it weren't for you.
...always appreciate your moxy Rick......if i went to my own space i would be in no-one's space though...the goal isn't myself...the goal is to relieve myself from playing in the rules of those who dictate i do so..the ideal result would be a brothersisterhood of the muppetmuppethood...even having to say that to you here is another ounce of not being where we could be...question re: ONE (app) --> if you could only make one post ever --> what would it look like?...
Yes. I suppose withholding or saving what feels most important and significant for last is not an ideal strategy, but perhaps there's a reason for it. I mean the biggest reason is obviously the vulnerability and fear of sharing what feels meaningful and close to one's heart. But maybe there's another matter of appropriate timing. Or both. Or the whole process of withholding might just be fear.
But thank you for the original question (such a good one) and the encouragement.
Love the way you describe social media - “It has a “notes” feed that mimics the lonely shouting into a racist cave functionality of twitter (only with more self-righteous butt-huffing). It added video functionality, so that everyone who fails on tiktok can come fail on this app instead.”
What has helped me, is to only use substack to share essays and read from ones that would inspire me to become a better writer. and totally ignoring the “social media” sides of things ie notes, for better or worse. and same for IG, I used to use it to post a beautiful collection of photos for myself and consume beautiful content, ignoring the “social” aspects of things completely, until it can no longer be used for that purpose. And I hope the social aspects of substack does not dilute the long form content it’s meant to have.
…would love to rap with you sometime on it…i might be wrong but i think tools change us so there is some thought theory (false idea) that I imagine plays into this aka how could online feel more physical and non manipulative…
…that’s inspiring coco and definitely helps me re-realize that much of the issue I have with “the apps” is my me, mirror, self…i guess that is why i gramble and gripe…i see the promise, but bore and puke on the execution…if we really had an online us i think it could change the world…but i am not sure those that make these are incentivized to make us more human…
I caught that 3rd footnote linking to a fake essay and laughed. It really makes me chuckle too how you mix quotes from Kylie Jenner with Gandhi. High-low-brow mix absolutely kills.
Great idea: limit posting to 1 a day. And I wonder if you can only post if you comment on someone else's post first. Someone in the comments mentioned that WOP is great because of the high-price, which creates a bar for people to leap over. We really need that bar for real social salons.
Dragon piss references are forgiven - though I tend to think it's badass? Dragons are badass.
as someone who is a social media addict and is currently abstaining from all forms of social media, substack is a grey area for me. which means... i do everything in my power not to use it like i would social media. i don't scroll notes, i try not to read content unless i have met those people personally, i try to comment and engage when i do. i really love this essay and thank u for sharing your thoughts, wishes, dreams, and muppet memes
…you teach me a lot…and i am certain that if i stepped away from this nest i’d have better daydreams no doubt…finally exorcising these thoughts was at least a step in the right direction i think…certainly spending this much time with muppets is good for the heart mind and my social being…i love your last point and try to practice that…know who you are trying to know better and then know them more…i also like the maxim “engage with those whome engage with you”…the world is better with friends and neighbors…
yes i like knowing the people who write the words i consume because i don't just absorb new ideas but i get to know people better. let's all get to know each other a little better
This wasn’t a rant. It was a manifesto — and I’m all for it!
This place would be so much greyer without you. Where else can you read a line like “…I guess I have to start my new Black Eyed Peas cover band cover band cover band cover band — PICKLE FLAVORED JOCK ITCH…” and it feel just right??
Thanks for the Muppets clips. I loved the Sclrap Flyapp one!
…sclrap flyapp is a life goal…you rule Simon…some day i’ll make somewhere else, but i imagine i’ll still be here when i do…if nothing else but to scalp Pickle Flavored Jock Itch tickets…
I feel this way about Notes. I just get angry most times I look at Notes, so I’ve been using it less. I don’t feel the icky feeling as much when I just read peoples newsletters and comment there.
One thing WoP had that Substack doesn’t is Zoom calls. Meeting people over video feels like the thing that can really connect me to people. It’s why I feel connected to you. We’ve had real live conversations!
…that’s pun intended “real”…maybe that could be a component of a somewhere else…like before you get to sub to someone’s something you send them an intro video they have to respond to?…
At first I was like, ooh an intro video, fun idea, but in reality I think there's too much friction to do that, like it's too much work. Also I think it's less about seeing the person and more about interacting with the person. So a 1-on-1 call or small group would be better. This is why your feedback gyms are a great idea, and Rick's Write Hearted.
Something else I was thinking, in regards to Write of Passage, there was something beautiful about Circle. It was a contained space. There was no opportunity to "grow your audience," only opportunity to foster greater connections. I think people show up to a space like that differently, more authentically, more vulnerably, less showy, less ulterior motives.
…yeah i think you’re right…there should be a little lift, but not too much…WOP circle and/or I think for many people (esp. gamers) Discord forums are definitely examples of community done ok online…the latter funny enough really didn’t hold up well as a post WOP alternative…i was added to two but they deflated like birthday baloons…i think if i try to build a thing i might start with the ONE idea aka an app where you can only make ONE post ever (but you can change it at any time)…i feel like limitations are positive aka substack pre-notes was so less noisy and interesting…it’s funny because people’s posts are THE JUICE but with notes/video/etc. I feel like the interaction or involvement with them becomes buried here…
I think the deeper problem is that everything seems to go the same way… Enshittification. We are working on land owned by someone else rather than sharing a commons.
It's solveable when we seize the means of production... Woodcut pamphlets hawked in the streets... Potato stamps... Charcoal drawing on a concrete wall... Map scratched in the sand with a twig... That kind of thing
No, not the enshittification of substack! Or do you think it's just that too many people are here? I still look back fondly at the innocent days of Usenet...
…ooooh usenet, never tried…i think it has less to do with quantity of people than it does with quality of product…substack is an imitation of multiple products bundled as one…the lack of focus gives it a lack of focus…meanwhile it feels like a poor imitation of those products, which if i am honest i an not an enthusiast of…i think we need a social media alternative that plays by new rules…every site feels the same and with slop and more slop eventually they will all be identical except for the branding…
Thought I was doing the right thing getting off of all socials but then notes came along and I’m checking it way too often and wondering why I’m so anxious. I’m sure it’s not the problem.
Same, dude, same. I quit the rest of social media years ago and it felt amazing. I told a friend the other day, “I can’t see Facebook links, no I’m not rejoining that cesspool for a short video.” I have found some great people from writing apps but now the overall feeling is ick. I’m going back to my dungeon.
I agree, Substack is starting to feel like all the other platforms. People shouting for attention, trying to show how amazing they are and selling shit.
I think WOP was such a good space was partly because of the high price. It filtered out a lot of unserious people and arseholes. Also, everyone there was there to share ideas, learn and grow (and sometimes to use what they learnt to then be able to tell other platforms how amazing they are or to sell shit).
...good point about people caring more for something that is $$$...i think another space could be possible, but time will tell i suppose...maybe the system is meant to be as it is...
I think a new space/system is possible, but you would need people within it to monitor what users are sharing, so user number would have to be relatively small. Or maybe an AI could monitor all the content. Either way, it will take a lot of time or money, and a platform for just learning and sharing ideas probably won't generate a lot of money.
If people want real life interaction and instant feedback, they can also check out Tye Dye Chi and the gang at Bingo Ate My Baby. A thing that encourages stepping out of comfort zones and (yes) sometimes, having your neck breathed on by a guru in a onesie, or a man baby in a tablecloth diaper.
I read this at my desk at work and I've been reflecting on it a lot today. It is such a shame, I do feel super frustrated with this app and the internet and culture in general. I try really hard to keep up with a few folks here, read closely, and contribute to the kind of environment I wanna be apart of. But damn!! it's very frustrating to wade through all the bullshit.
I'm going to have to drop into one of your feedback gyms sometime. I'm thinking things should slow down in the winter sometime so I can do that. I could use some real time writing companionship for sure!
…would be so stoked to online hang…also if you ever come to the bay and we don’t meet up it is sacrilege…i appreciate so much how you are building craft online…
Hey, I’m one of your Pepe’s!
Excellent essay. I especially like the idea of no like buttons. They are not helpful. If you like, then comment. Your words are your engagement and your “like.”
…yeah you are!…vanity metrics are as much fun as a carly simon record played at chipmunk speed…how is there not a cocreative community app thats all the good of this buttbucket and none of the trash…dragon piss i tell ya…dragon piss…
Is it a necessary evil or just evil…question I ask every day and you’ve just confused for me even more.
Make it stop! 👻👻👻
...if it was a necessary evil why would the owners of said products be building bunkers?...
Absolutely love this idea. They won’t do it as likes help make $$$
...yeah if I were to build this thing I think the money would come ala a patreon/substack/kickstarter methodology (crowd funded) built on the blockchain though so the system had its own currency and the market of it would both pay for the platform, but also reward users for growing the platform over time...
The media entrepreneur the world needs
…let’s restart hollywood in jamaica…
You belong on the list at the end with your own space that you can invite people into to play as described. The Man Baby Sisterhood. One notification and one post per day. Watching the muppets do Bohemian Rhapsody is something I might have missed in this lifetime if it weren't for you.
...always appreciate your moxy Rick......if i went to my own space i would be in no-one's space though...the goal isn't myself...the goal is to relieve myself from playing in the rules of those who dictate i do so..the ideal result would be a brothersisterhood of the muppetmuppethood...even having to say that to you here is another ounce of not being where we could be...question re: ONE (app) --> if you could only make one post ever --> what would it look like?...
https://unbrandedself.com/index
…dang Rick when did you make this?…
Right after Covid hit in 2020.
...super cool man...you should totally run a post on this one if you haven't yet...
Yes. I suppose withholding or saving what feels most important and significant for last is not an ideal strategy, but perhaps there's a reason for it. I mean the biggest reason is obviously the vulnerability and fear of sharing what feels meaningful and close to one's heart. But maybe there's another matter of appropriate timing. Or both. Or the whole process of withholding might just be fear.
But thank you for the original question (such a good one) and the encouragement.
Love the way you describe social media - “It has a “notes” feed that mimics the lonely shouting into a racist cave functionality of twitter (only with more self-righteous butt-huffing). It added video functionality, so that everyone who fails on tiktok can come fail on this app instead.”
What has helped me, is to only use substack to share essays and read from ones that would inspire me to become a better writer. and totally ignoring the “social media” sides of things ie notes, for better or worse. and same for IG, I used to use it to post a beautiful collection of photos for myself and consume beautiful content, ignoring the “social” aspects of things completely, until it can no longer be used for that purpose. And I hope the social aspects of substack does not dilute the long form content it’s meant to have.
…would love to rap with you sometime on it…i might be wrong but i think tools change us so there is some thought theory (false idea) that I imagine plays into this aka how could online feel more physical and non manipulative…
…that’s inspiring coco and definitely helps me re-realize that much of the issue I have with “the apps” is my me, mirror, self…i guess that is why i gramble and gripe…i see the promise, but bore and puke on the execution…if we really had an online us i think it could change the world…but i am not sure those that make these are incentivized to make us more human…
I’m curious what that “really online us” looks like. interesting to think how that would differ from today’s social media
I would agree with that - the tools change us over time. and yes! talk more about it
…next chance can’t wait…i appreciate your comittment to community…
I caught that 3rd footnote linking to a fake essay and laughed. It really makes me chuckle too how you mix quotes from Kylie Jenner with Gandhi. High-low-brow mix absolutely kills.
Great idea: limit posting to 1 a day. And I wonder if you can only post if you comment on someone else's post first. Someone in the comments mentioned that WOP is great because of the high-price, which creates a bar for people to leap over. We really need that bar for real social salons.
Dragon piss references are forgiven - though I tend to think it's badass? Dragons are badass.
…real talk i bet dragon piss would taste good (like acupuncture tea) and be good for you (like acupuncture)…
as someone who is a social media addict and is currently abstaining from all forms of social media, substack is a grey area for me. which means... i do everything in my power not to use it like i would social media. i don't scroll notes, i try not to read content unless i have met those people personally, i try to comment and engage when i do. i really love this essay and thank u for sharing your thoughts, wishes, dreams, and muppet memes
…you teach me a lot…and i am certain that if i stepped away from this nest i’d have better daydreams no doubt…finally exorcising these thoughts was at least a step in the right direction i think…certainly spending this much time with muppets is good for the heart mind and my social being…i love your last point and try to practice that…know who you are trying to know better and then know them more…i also like the maxim “engage with those whome engage with you”…the world is better with friends and neighbors…
yes i like knowing the people who write the words i consume because i don't just absorb new ideas but i get to know people better. let's all get to know each other a little better
This wasn’t a rant. It was a manifesto — and I’m all for it!
This place would be so much greyer without you. Where else can you read a line like “…I guess I have to start my new Black Eyed Peas cover band cover band cover band cover band — PICKLE FLAVORED JOCK ITCH…” and it feel just right??
Thanks for the Muppets clips. I loved the Sclrap Flyapp one!
…sclrap flyapp is a life goal…you rule Simon…some day i’ll make somewhere else, but i imagine i’ll still be here when i do…if nothing else but to scalp Pickle Flavored Jock Itch tickets…
So good! What days are your feedback gyms? And yes, we still need that coffee!
…yes let’s grab that IRL hang!!!…Gyms are currently mainly 9am pdt MON/FRI…if you want on the invite just DM me your email :)…
Will do! Weekdays are hard with the day job and childcare. But I’ll message you and see if I can block the time in an upcoming session. Thanks!
I feel this way about Notes. I just get angry most times I look at Notes, so I’ve been using it less. I don’t feel the icky feeling as much when I just read peoples newsletters and comment there.
One thing WoP had that Substack doesn’t is Zoom calls. Meeting people over video feels like the thing that can really connect me to people. It’s why I feel connected to you. We’ve had real live conversations!
…that’s pun intended “real”…maybe that could be a component of a somewhere else…like before you get to sub to someone’s something you send them an intro video they have to respond to?…
At first I was like, ooh an intro video, fun idea, but in reality I think there's too much friction to do that, like it's too much work. Also I think it's less about seeing the person and more about interacting with the person. So a 1-on-1 call or small group would be better. This is why your feedback gyms are a great idea, and Rick's Write Hearted.
Something else I was thinking, in regards to Write of Passage, there was something beautiful about Circle. It was a contained space. There was no opportunity to "grow your audience," only opportunity to foster greater connections. I think people show up to a space like that differently, more authentically, more vulnerably, less showy, less ulterior motives.
…yeah i think you’re right…there should be a little lift, but not too much…WOP circle and/or I think for many people (esp. gamers) Discord forums are definitely examples of community done ok online…the latter funny enough really didn’t hold up well as a post WOP alternative…i was added to two but they deflated like birthday baloons…i think if i try to build a thing i might start with the ONE idea aka an app where you can only make ONE post ever (but you can change it at any time)…i feel like limitations are positive aka substack pre-notes was so less noisy and interesting…it’s funny because people’s posts are THE JUICE but with notes/video/etc. I feel like the interaction or involvement with them becomes buried here…
I agree with everything & it's a massive bummer especially considering it used to feel so nice
…i guess the good thing is that a competitor is a wide open idea and could easily fill the hole of here there and everywhere…
I think the deeper problem is that everything seems to go the same way… Enshittification. We are working on land owned by someone else rather than sharing a commons.
…is it solveable or do all things capitalism inevitably final form as shart?…
It's solveable when we seize the means of production... Woodcut pamphlets hawked in the streets... Potato stamps... Charcoal drawing on a concrete wall... Map scratched in the sand with a twig... That kind of thing
…yeah the digital world has no solve for the alchemy of the physical (robots hopefully be damned)…
No, not the enshittification of substack! Or do you think it's just that too many people are here? I still look back fondly at the innocent days of Usenet...
…ooooh usenet, never tried…i think it has less to do with quantity of people than it does with quality of product…substack is an imitation of multiple products bundled as one…the lack of focus gives it a lack of focus…meanwhile it feels like a poor imitation of those products, which if i am honest i an not an enthusiast of…i think we need a social media alternative that plays by new rules…every site feels the same and with slop and more slop eventually they will all be identical except for the branding…
Thought I was doing the right thing getting off of all socials but then notes came along and I’m checking it way too often and wondering why I’m so anxious. I’m sure it’s not the problem.
…probably your problem right?…not a feature of the app?…it’s wild the way we beat ourselves because they say we should…
Definitely my fault, but taking some alpha male classes so I won’t be a problem anymore.
…dude i just bought an andrew alpha taint me festival ticket…my ego is so swole…
Same, dude, same. I quit the rest of social media years ago and it felt amazing. I told a friend the other day, “I can’t see Facebook links, no I’m not rejoining that cesspool for a short video.” I have found some great people from writing apps but now the overall feeling is ick. I’m going back to my dungeon.
…well don’t leave…i love knowing who else is in the dungeon…i can’t keep talking to my can of beans…
I agree, Substack is starting to feel like all the other platforms. People shouting for attention, trying to show how amazing they are and selling shit.
I think WOP was such a good space was partly because of the high price. It filtered out a lot of unserious people and arseholes. Also, everyone there was there to share ideas, learn and grow (and sometimes to use what they learnt to then be able to tell other platforms how amazing they are or to sell shit).
...good point about people caring more for something that is $$$...i think another space could be possible, but time will tell i suppose...maybe the system is meant to be as it is...
I think a new space/system is possible, but you would need people within it to monitor what users are sharing, so user number would have to be relatively small. Or maybe an AI could monitor all the content. Either way, it will take a lot of time or money, and a platform for just learning and sharing ideas probably won't generate a lot of money.
…well i guess drinking dragon piss it is…
If people want real life interaction and instant feedback, they can also check out Tye Dye Chi and the gang at Bingo Ate My Baby. A thing that encourages stepping out of comfort zones and (yes) sometimes, having your neck breathed on by a guru in a onesie, or a man baby in a tablecloth diaper.
...good plug...bingo might save the world...
Oooo how I relate to (and appreciate!) this post!!
…and i relate to and appreciate you!…